Comments on: In Proper Perspective: Fathers and Daughters http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277 Encouraging, inspiring, and challenging young ladies to rediscover the treasure of dressing femininely modest. So we may be an example in a world where true beauty has been lost that we may bring glory to God. Fri, 10 Sep 2010 06:48:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Mrs Avigail http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-17164 Mrs Avigail Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:29:39 +0000 http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-17164 Stephanie, Deu 21 places the responsibility to rebuke adult, wayward children on the parents - please note the community aspect of this. Wayward children are a danger to the community, and if they do not listen to the parents' or the community's rebuke, the parents , or more precisely, the father is the one who will have to throw the first stone to put the evil away from the brethren, just like the witnesses do in other cases. Scripture is clear on the issue in many places. You will find plenty of examples in Proverbs that indicate that wayward children are both the grief and the shame of the parents, and Paul upholds having raised the children properly ("by their fruits you shall know them") as one criteria for elders and deacons. The way adult children behave does indeed fall back on the parents according to Scripture. And let me paste again what I said earlier: "Scripture is clear about the responsibility of the parents. There are no exceptions mentioned, and Scripture says that your child will not depart from the way he should go if he is trained up in the right way (Proverbs 22:6). This is a an assertion, a promise, if you will: Do it right and the outcome will be a faithful (adult) child." Does that mean that a glutton and drunkard is not responsible for his lifestyle ? Certainly not. It is not the parent who is stoned in Deu 21. But the shame and the grief are on the parents' side, as well as the responsibility to protect the brethren community from evil brought on by their own children ("Love your neighbor as yourself"). Incidentally: The post was written with the presupposition that ultimacy lies with YHVH's sovereign will, word and decree alone. Mrs Avigail Stephanie,

Deu 21 places the responsibility to rebuke adult, wayward children on the parents – please note the community aspect of this. Wayward children are a danger to the community, and if they do not listen to the parents’ or the community’s rebuke, the parents , or more precisely, the father is the one who will have to throw the first stone to put the evil away from the brethren, just like the witnesses do in other cases.

Scripture is clear on the issue in many places. You will find plenty of examples in Proverbs that indicate that wayward children are both the grief and the shame of the parents, and Paul upholds having raised the children properly (“by their fruits you shall know them”) as one criteria for elders and deacons. The way adult children behave does indeed fall back on the parents according to Scripture.

And let me paste again what I said earlier:
“Scripture is clear about the responsibility of the parents. There are no exceptions mentioned, and Scripture says that your child will not depart from the way he should go if he is trained up in the right way (Proverbs 22:6). This is a an assertion, a promise, if you will: Do it right and the outcome will be a faithful (adult) child.”

Does that mean that a glutton and drunkard is not responsible for his lifestyle ? Certainly not. It is not the parent who is stoned in Deu 21. But the shame and the grief are on the parents’ side, as well as the responsibility to protect the brethren community from evil brought on by their own children (“Love your neighbor as yourself”).

Incidentally: The post was written with the presupposition that ultimacy lies with YHVH’s sovereign will, word and decree alone.

Mrs Avigail

]]> By: Stephanie http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-17139 Stephanie Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:55:25 +0000 http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-17139 Cattie: Great perspective! As a single mother, I can relate to your mom's position. While my daughter's father is in her life, it is part time at best. I am the one who held her when she was sad, or stayed up all night when she was sick. Ultimately though, it is Yah who I will let do the deciding and giving permission. Thank you for sharing. Cattie: Great perspective! As a single mother, I can relate to your mom’s position. While my daughter’s father is in her life, it is part time at best. I am the one who held her when she was sad, or stayed up all night when she was sick.
Ultimately though, it is Yah who I will let do the deciding and giving permission. Thank you for sharing.

]]> By: Stephanie http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-17121 Stephanie Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:12:16 +0000 http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-17121 Wow, lots to think about. Thanks for all the research that obviously went into this. I will have to study it more, but appreciate your post. I do take issue with the fact that a grown child's behavior can be brought back to the fact that a parent didn't raise them right. Ultimately there is man's free will, and if a son or daughter of say, 25, decided to do something that is against how the parent's raised them, I don't see how that can come back on the parents. But like I said, I will have to study this more Shalom Wow, lots to think about. Thanks for all the research that obviously went into this. I will have to study it more, but appreciate your post.
I do take issue with the fact that a grown child’s behavior can be brought back to the fact that a parent didn’t raise them right. Ultimately there is man’s free will, and if a son or daughter of say, 25, decided to do something that is against how the parent’s raised them, I don’t see how that can come back on the parents. But like I said, I will have to study this more

Shalom

]]> By: Cattie http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-17117 Cattie Fri, 11 Jun 2010 05:59:32 +0000 http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-17117 This article is LOVELY. My dad left my mother and I before I was born, not wanting to take responsibility for our family. Nearly every ministry class or Scripture class I have taken since has espoused the belief that a suitor must ask a girl's FATHER for permission to date/court/marry her. In one of my Bible classes in college, Preparation For Marriage, it was even suggested by a guest speaker that the man should TRACK DOWN the girl's absent father and ask for his permission. That was just insulting to me. I have a perfectly capable, protective, loving, responsible mother who has poured her entire life into raising me and caring for me - SHE is the appropriate person to ask if a young man desires my hand, NOT a man who has never even met me, nor wanted to share any part of my life! And I have a heavenly Father who protects me, also. I do have a purity ring, and I have promised to remain a virgin until marriage, but neither my father nor my mother pressured me into that - it was my own decision. Thank you for writing this. It sheds Scriptural light on a controversial subject in the church today, and comforts my heart that I am not "out of luck" for simply not having a good earthly father. This article is LOVELY. My dad left my mother and I before I was born, not wanting to take responsibility for our family. Nearly every ministry class or Scripture class I have taken since has espoused the belief that a suitor must ask a girl’s FATHER for permission to date/court/marry her. In one of my Bible classes in college, Preparation For Marriage, it was even suggested by a guest speaker that the man should TRACK DOWN the girl’s absent father and ask for his permission. That was just insulting to me. I have a perfectly capable, protective, loving, responsible mother who has poured her entire life into raising me and caring for me – SHE is the appropriate person to ask if a young man desires my hand, NOT a man who has never even met me, nor wanted to share any part of my life! And I have a heavenly Father who protects me, also. I do have a purity ring, and I have promised to remain a virgin until marriage, but neither my father nor my mother pressured me into that – it was my own decision. Thank you for writing this. It sheds Scriptural light on a controversial subject in the church today, and comforts my heart that I am not “out of luck” for simply not having a good earthly father.

]]> By: lisa-s.ca » Challenging Femininity http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-9358 lisa-s.ca » Challenging Femininity Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:29:59 +0000 http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-9358 [...] In Proper Perspective: Fathers and Daughters – How important is the father-daughter relationship? This article explains that it should be no more important than the mother-daughter one and should not have so much stress placed on it. I don’t agree with everything in the article (particularly the part about children departing from the path always being the parents fault), but on this I do agree. [...] [...] In Proper Perspective: Fathers and Daughters – How important is the father-daughter relationship? This article explains that it should be no more important than the mother-daughter one and should not have so much stress placed on it. I don’t agree with everything in the article (particularly the part about children departing from the path always being the parents fault), but on this I do agree. [...]

]]> By: Teresa Smith http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-9226 Teresa Smith Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:04:46 +0000 http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-9226 Very well written. It has always bothered me to see Torah observant families with their little daughters-infants even with their head covered. Now I have a great resource to back up what I always believed....the husband is head of his wife-none other,period. A man, as well as woman, has two different roles..parent and spouse. And as you very well put, the father does not exercise any special "headship" over their daughters. Blessings in Messiah, Teresa/Navah Very well written.

It has always bothered me to see Torah observant families with their little daughters-infants even with their head covered. Now I have a great resource to back up what I always believed….the husband is head of his wife-none other,period. A man, as well as woman, has two different roles..parent and spouse. And as you very well put, the father does not exercise any special “headship” over their daughters.

Blessings in Messiah,
Teresa/Navah

]]> By: Mrs Avigail http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-9132 Mrs Avigail Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:24:13 +0000 http://feelinfeminine.com/?p=2277#comment-9132 Brooke, Thank you for your comment. Let me be brief: Scripture is clear about the responsibility of the parents. There are no exceptions mentioned, and Scripture says that your child will not depart from the way he should go if he is trained up in the right way (Proverbs 22:6). This is a an assertion, a promise, if you will: Do it right and the outcome will be a faithful (adult) child. You are certainly right that it is Yahweh's sovereign grace that changes hearts. We see, however, what was expected of the parents of unruly and unrepentant (adult) children in Deu 21. This passage, incidentally, also shows that Yahweh's sovereignty includes refusing to change someone's heart. As far as love and obedience are concerned: Loving Yahweh means to fear and obey Him. You show Yahweh that you love Him by keeping His commandments (Joh 14:15). Mrs Avigail Brooke,

Thank you for your comment. Let me be brief:

Scripture is clear about the responsibility of the parents. There are no exceptions mentioned, and Scripture says that your child will not depart from the way he should go if he is trained up in the right way (Proverbs 22:6). This is a an assertion, a promise, if you will: Do it right and the outcome will be a faithful (adult) child.

You are certainly right that it is Yahweh’s sovereign grace that changes hearts. We see, however, what was expected of the parents of unruly and unrepentant (adult) children in Deu 21. This passage, incidentally, also shows that Yahweh’s sovereignty includes refusing to change someone’s heart.

As far as love and obedience are concerned: Loving Yahweh means to fear and obey Him. You show Yahweh that you love Him by keeping His commandments (Joh 14:15).

Mrs Avigail

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